John Burton Ministries - Latest Comments in Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

Tony davis — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:30:29 -0000

Friends,

The churches responsibilities according to scripture are very vast, we are to encourage one another (although encouragement should not always be looked upon as something that always has to feel good) the bk of Hebrews records, "Let us provoke each other unto love and good works." I have heard many people discouraged w/churches, due to the lack of love, it is love that must be seen in the church without love (and I mean agape and phileo of course) the body of Christs cease to exist, "this is how the world will know you are my disciples when you have love one for another." The church cannot be too much of one thing and not enough of the other, this will lead to "unbalance" and this most often will result in over emphasizing one thing, and not emphasizing on the more "weightier" matters or should I say, as I heard one minister say, "get caught up in a ditch." We must also recognize the church is not to be taken advantage of nor to over extend itself, our beloved brother Paul addresses these things in his epistles. I would say too much "worldliness" has invaded the church, because instead of the world coming to us, we are going to them, which means you can hardly tell the church from the world anymore, do I speak the truth friends. Yes would I agree the church needs to have a shut in, and yes we definetely need revival, some would say we don't but please read the bks of Hosea and Joel. Yes the true church will always be a house of prayer (notice I said the true church) but not at the expense of forsaking other issues the church must address, we remember the situation in the bk of Acts where certain peoples' were being forsaken, and of course not intentionally, so the apostles chose deacons, so that they could spend there time in prayer and study while the deacons took care of the other concerns that could not be overlooked and that would've caused a schism in the church. The church must be a light in this fallen world, so we must be sensitive to our members (I didn't say get caught up in emotions, but be sensitive) do good to all men, but especially to those, who are of the household of faith. The church is not perfect, for we are the body of Christ and we make up the church, and we are imperfect, now of course if that particular church home is operating in either false doctrine, an over emphasis on certain scripture, or bks of the bible and the love of God is not present, then you must leave it. But if the church is balanced (falling under the great commission to teach, evangelize and baptize) but has some issues, then be patient because you yourself has issues (who doesn't) and render longsuffering because you would want to receive it. Yes first appearances do mean alot, we shouldn't draw conclusion when we don't get or receive what we want (who isn't guility of this) but when an individual enters a church home, they should be greeted w/love and care and love (agape) is the main thing we should emphasize on, but instead we emphasize on other matters, lets remember what Paul said, "earnestly desire the best gifts, but I will show you a more excellent way" and that more excellent way is the way of love, "and now abideth faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love" and friends let me make it clear I'm not speaking of an humanistic love, that hates correction, looks at encouragement one sided and is self-absorbed, I'm talking about a love that rejoices in the truth (for some reason it came on me to make that point). I believe the church has become powerless because of the lack of love, people are leaving yes, for there own selfish immature reasons, yes because the great falling away (the apostasy) must occur, but I believe mostly for OUR lack of love, for before the church becomes a house of pray, it must first be a house of love, for love will help us recognize the need for pray, for revival and anything else concerned w/the church, I'm sure some would disagree on my emphasizing of love, but I remember an incident when the pharisees were questioning the Lord, in there futile attempts to discredit him, said to him which is the greatest of the commandments, he said to them, "love the LORD your God w/all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself", having said this, and the pharisees knowing this to be the whole of the commandments, did not dare challenge him on his answer. Loving you all.

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

ihopedetroit — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:42:59 -0000

I too have great frustration with church as many of us know it today. Seems like Dutch is just now getting a dose of what many of us have had for years. A good case of the "wrecked" and many of us suffer from being "ruined". This is the case for many people that are involved in a Prayer House ministry. We are told by our prayer house leaders that we are to be submitted to a local Church. Ok ? !! We are ruined and wrecked by the Prayer house because we are used to ministering to the Lord and being on our face in His presense.
Then, we must submit ourselves to the leadership of one who may or may not even agree with the Global Prayer movement. This is hurtful.
Monday through Saturday we minister before the Lord. We pray in the spirit , we freely worship Jesus and allow God to be God. We have musician that are not players but worshipers and they lead us into places that only God would know exist. We are wrecked..... Ruined..... then Sunday comes and ................need I saw more.
This is a place of pressure for us who have no other desire than to be with God and minister to Him. Why??? Where did this twisted mindset come from that a Prayer house is not a church ? KC ?? is everything that comes out of KC correct ?
The Lord said My Fathers house shall be called a house of prayer. So, when I am at the House of Prayer , I am in my Fathers house. Do we continue to bring ourselves under criticism and frustration just because we find ourselves Ruined by the prayer house and are told we have to continue to be associated with our church ?
HELP....still confused and frustrated.

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

r180 — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:03:35 -0000

This is a very important topic. There is a reformation coming to the church, and it will be quite offensive to those who are looking to the church to meet their own needs. The call of the church is to be a house of prayer for all nations- a place of intercession.

We are not to look to the church to meet our needs, to affirm us or comfort us. While some of that might happen in the scheme of things, the primary call is to pray.

I heard it said that somewhere along the way the American church became 'pastor driven', which has basically done it in. Now, instead of having apostolic leadership, pastors are focusing on meeting needs of the people, and the people, in turn, have increased their demands on the church.

My book Covens in the Church addresses this issue in more depth. In this nation, the reformation that is coming is not one that will be relationally driven, but rather it will be mission driven.

We are suffering from the 'money changer' issue. The money changers went into the temple with the expectation of leaving with more than they entered with. They used the temple for their own gain. This mindset is infecting the church.

Jesus dealt with that attitude violently and declared the the church is a house of prayer for all nations.

Our call is to go into the church with the expectation of leaving with less than we entered with. It's a place of sacrifice and offering.

We don't choose the church we attend based on programs, relationships, teaching or what it gives us. We attend the church God assigns us to and we intercede for the nations. We take our place on the wall.

To mention that you weren't greeted at Dutch's church is an evidence of false expectations. While it's nice to be greeted, it's not a primary focus of a church to do so. When we walk through the doors of a church, we are there to minister to God.

Many are flocking in rebellion to illegitimate house churches. They didn't have their demands met in a church, so the rise up, take control and leave. Instead, they should have gone low, submitted to leadership (yes, imperfect leadership), and stayed in position.

Are there legitimate house churches? Of course, but they weren't started in arrogance or rebellion by disgruntled people. They understand their role within the larger city-church context.

So, to sum it up, the church isn't there to meet your needs, to shake your hand or connect with you. It's there to call people to bring an offering and minister to God. Can some of the relationship and other ministry occur as a result of that? Without question.

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

JC — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:25:35 -0000

HI John,
While Dutch was not looking the reformation came!! If you read books like George Barna's Revolution you will find that solid Christians are leaving the church in DROVES and have been for years. It can'be ignored now. People are leaving for house churches and relational communities where they are actually accepted and loved. (I was not even greeted at Dutches church the times I visited)

The Reformation began years ago.....sorry until now its seems Dutch missed it!!!

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

MrVince — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:24:13 -0000

O Yes ! Worship changes THINGS ON EARTH by engaging our heart WITH God's heart.
May we all worship first PRIVATELY, then CORPORATELY as the Bride!
GOD dwells in the worship of His people.
.
Will GOD enjoy us if WE THINK OF WORSHIP PRIMARLY AS A WARM-UP for teaching !!!

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

Joel — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:16:21 -0000

Nice nice.

Re: Dutch Sheets: "We have suspended everything… even on Sundays… nothing but worship…"

Sara — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:48:08 -0000

Amen to this!!! it's been a cry in my heart as well that until God allows us to do so we remain in a place of worship. I'm a firm believer of moving by the spirit, and oftentimes it's as though we say "Okay here's 20 minutes of worship, but don't go over that because we need time to fit the message in." And as far as how long our Sunday morning services should be, it needs to be lead by the Holy Spirit!! Not by our schedules. I guess it all comes back down to letting go of our schedules & recognizing the need to let God move as He pleases.

Awesome article!! Let's pray that this awareness comes to the hearts of many across the nation!!