10 comments

• 

  Truthspeaker

  11 months ago

  John, hard to believe that anyone endorces this. It is NOT Christian in any way. It is just new age mysticism wrapped in a Christian wording. Going into a trance during drumming is shamanistic.
  
  You should read my blog on this at
  http://truthspeaker.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/sh...
  reply
• 

  John Burton

  11 months ago

  Many are concerned with a variety of manifestations that are similar to what they might see in the New Age or other belief systems. I've read about people that will throw away anything that shares visible similarities such as what we see in the above article. Here's the question- how do you arrive at the conclusion that it is ungodly?
  
  The enemy mimics what is true. He counterfeits. So, we know biblicaly that trances can be godly. And we know that the enemy uses trances as well.
  
  Christians pray in tongues as do those who are demonized.
  
  Christians tremble and shake under the power of the Holy Spirit and those who are demonized do the same.
  
  The point? We don't want to throw it all away, just the part that is demonic.
  
  Dreams, visions, manifestations, trembling, trances, going to the 3rd Heaven, being transported, etc. are all expected biblical realities for believers.
  
  An important key is that we cannot easily judge with our natural senses. We can't simply say that something 'looks' just like something you'd see in a New Age setting. We have to discern it spiritually. It's really not a very confusing issue. If we ask God for his Holy Spirit, we will receive the Holy Spirit. If we desire something else, something ungodly, then we are at risk.
  reply
• 

  sclough

  11 months ago

  I have to say, this does seem very concerning. Why do we need to work something up rather than have something pure from God come down? We do we seem to have the need to take practices from other pagan religions and "Christianize" them?
  reply
• 

  John Burton

  11 months ago

  I'll admit I do have questions, but regarding the prophetic/mystical stuff, are we Christianizing pagan religions OR are the pagans 'paganizing' Christian religion?
  
  It's a 'chicken/egg' question. Which came first? The enemy counterfeits what is real. So, what do you all think?
  reply
• 

  sclough

  11 months ago

  I agree the enemy counterfeits, but the new approach in some circles seems to be that everything evil or pagan is just a counterfeit of the good and therefore should be tweaked so that it is good and then embraced. I believe this is a slippery slope and quite dangerous. We can acknowledge on a high level that he is a counterfeiter without trying to apply that to everything individual where we then basically assume that we are missing something if we don't embrace the "good" side of something counterfeited. Why not just engage God totally (and see where that leads) rather than trying to "redeem" the New Age?
  reply
• 

  Washington

  11 months ago

  I like the concept, but the language is distrubing... terms like mystical and ecstasy instantly put people off. Sure after a while, after pushing, the terms can be accepted in modern Christianese, but then it can camouflage far more sinister spiritual activities that are not from God.
  
  There is nothing wrong from saying that you want to encounter God like Moses, Elijah, Isaiah and Ezekiel did... but adding disruptive language to define this experience will cause division and misinterpretation to occur. I would stick to the language the Bible uses for these experiences (as in their English translation)... like using 'trance' is ok, even though it's borderline, at least you can point back to a verse in the Bible to back up the language.... not so for 'ecstasy' (as it's translated as astonishment/amazement) or 'mystical'.
  
  I am all for radical encounter, I believe we need it... I am against sensationalism or hyped emotionalism, which can often occur if an authentic experience is absent. I really wish that these wildnerness patches were talked about and explained more so that when people go through that season, they fall back on the Word of God and prayer rather than doing some external rev-up to try and jump start their way into the presence of God. I think that is the core of people's concern and hesitation... everyone loves the presence of God and all the amazing emotions, feelings, awe, astonishment, overwhelmingness that goes with it, they just don't like weirdos, weird language or forced experiences.
  reply
• 

  John Burton

  11 months ago

  Great post!
  reply
• 

  Brian

  11 months ago

  We should be careful with this stuff. The low level of discernment shocks me. New Age has made its inroads into church and christianity. What's even worse too, they make profits from it. I want to say to all who read this, beware... you should read the fall edition of The Voice, http://www.thevoicemagazine.com -- it's a free download for all who want it.
  
  God Bless
  reply
• 

  Brandon Morris

  11 months ago

  Uh oh...um, it's like getting out of a comfort zone, isn't it? Seriously, I love the idea of Ekstasis worship...I also love the idea that people DO question it, to an extent...absolutely seek discernment, ask God for wisdom, but PRAISE HIM with everything you've got, SEEK HIM, DESIRE HIM!
  
  New age? I don't think so, but ya'know to each their own...as long as the judgement from man isn't there...like John, my heart is to my Lord - his command was to worship him...we should do that with every part of our being.
  
  Someone said something about working something up...
  Just curious, not flaming, have you ever had to pray through? I mean really pray through to get outside of your SELF...outside all the extra thoughts in your head? That could be called working something up - where you finally get into communion with God, that intimate relationship with Him. It makes sense to me.
  
  Now, I like Washington posted, am against emotionalism - there is a DEFINITE difference between an experience with God and a feeling or emotion...we have to be careful, but SEEK God with everything you have and you need not be careful of emotionalism b/c God will meet you where you are if you truly are seeking Him.
  reply
• 

  ihopedetroit

  10 months ago

  I like this and am going to look into it more.
  
  When reading the words describing ekstasis I could not help seeing girls screaming and passing out when seeing John Lennon or Paul McCartney playing with the Beatles. Sad but true our culture will accept extasis over the Beatles or the Stones but when we get extasis over worshiping Jesus we have to question it.
  When are we going to just stop? Stop judging. You know I have a friend that is completely sold out to the mission field. If your not a missionary he thinks that your doing something wrong. This is a body issue. The elbow does not think that the nose is part of the body. But we know that the body needs the elbow and the nose right ? Now... do you think that the elbow and the nose worship the same? Prob. not. they are different parts of the body.
  Why is it we tend to believe that the way we worship God has to be a level place. Some worship with Hymns and some with ekstasis. For me, I want to go as deep as I can in worship use whatever means that I can to get closer to God. Closer to Jesus to be caught up in the place that others fear to go. Physical things happen when we get close, get used to it.
  Go, worship and worship and worship and worship
  reply